How To Get Rush Camera Eye Sound

PoisonJam7 · Joined: 23 Apr 2012 Posts: viii

Hello. I am admittedly a synth newb; I don't my LFO's from my Oscillators. My feel is mainly as a guitar and bass actor, but I'yard doing a project which requires quite a chip of keyboard sounds. Then, I purchased a MicroKorg since it has gotten such great reviews and fit my budget.

Anyways, I'm trying to re-create the iconic sounds of the OB-10 and the Oberheim polyphonic as heard throughout "The Photographic camera Eye" as recorded on Blitz's "Moving Pictures" album. I'thou sure many of you are familiar with this sound...

Afterward fooling around with the MK for a while, I was able to create a pretty close approximation of the "Big LFO sweep" sound that you lot hear after the initial 7 notes. (It's hard to depict...simply it'due south the part that starts at virtually 28 seconds into the song) But, I'm having no luck in creating the main sound. The one that goes "weeow, weeow, weeow, weoow" etc.. As I said, I'm a synth newb, but from what I've read, this was originally created using an OB-X. I saw them twice on the Fourth dimension Machine Tour and information technology looked similar Geddy was playing sampled sounds on his Moog Little Phatty. (Probably sampled from the anthology)

Regardless, I'chiliad still at a loss equally to how to create this audio. I'one thousand non really looking for a patch file, but it certainly wouldn't be denied, but some guidance about how this sound was constructed and how I can get well-nigh re-creating information technology on my MicroKorg.

Thanks for whatever input.

(While you're at it, don't be hesitant to include some info or patch links related to the iconic Moog Taurus intro to "Tom Sawyer" or the Polysynth of "Subdivisions" Wink or Whatsoever Blitz song for that matter! )

P.Southward - Nearly of the info I accept about this vocal came from the Rush Tab Project website, and the subsequent Camera Centre Keyboard Tab. Equally seen here.

*Edit* Hither is a recording of the patch I fabricated, as described earlier. The first example is with the sweeping LFO, and the second is without it. I would upload my patch, simply I don't have the Korg software installed on this computer. I call back i've gotten pretty shut, but I'm yet missing the "weeow, weeow" sound. Smile

Instance 1

Case 2

xmlguy · Platinum Member Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 3605

You need to play with the filter envelope and so that a depression pass filter centre bespeak increases and decreases using the same timing that you are trying to synthesize. Yous likewise need to play with the filter resonance.

PoisonJam7 · Joined: 23 Apr 2012 Posts: eight

Thanks for that information. i volition try fooling effectually with those settings this night and see if I can come up with anything.

PoisonJam7 · Joined: 23 Apr 2012 Posts: eight

Subsequently a bit of fooling around, I was able to come upwardly with a pretty close approximation of the sound. At that place is ane problem I'm all the same having though:

The patch makes the "weeow" sound like I was looking for, merely it seems to be less pronounced and noticeable the higher upwards I play. For example, when I play the opening chord, it sounds adept and pretty close to the tape. But when I start to play the second theme (the ane that the guitar plays after the drums enter) the effect is less pronounced and doesn't audio as close to the recording. Is this maybe the limit of the microKorg'southward synth engine in being able to re-create Oberheim sounds? Or is it (well-nigh probable) my inexperience?

I've uploaded my patch and was hoping someone could take a expect at it and maybe assist me tweak it to go it sounding just correct? Thanks for any assist.

Patch Download

xmlguy · Platinum Member Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 3605

It would be easier to heed to an mp3 of your case, if yous could tape and post it. I am a audio designer but I do non accept the Microkorg, just a agglomeration of other synths similar the R3 that are very similar in pattern.

Some other tip is to use a virtual patch to use the keyboard velocity to affect the intensity of the filter sweep. This will let you lot control how much of a wah that you get based on how fast you hit the chord. The sound of the wah is afflicted most past the filter resonance, so be sure to try out different amounts. You besides need to carefully control the starting and ending points of the filter to exist in the correct frequency range to match what yous hear on the Rush sample.

The problem with the wah sound for higher notes might be that the ending signal of the filter sweep is non going loftier plenty, or you may non have enough frequency content in the higher range for the filter to have equally much effect. You tin can increase the higher harmonics by using a sawtooth and/or foursquare wave, which are rich in harmonics compared to sine waves or triangles. The cool thing about saw and foursquare waves is that the filter tin plough them into a sine wave as the harmonics are filtered out, leaving simply the root note. The reverse is true likewise, the saw/square can start as sine wave when the filter centre betoken is low and then the harmonics reappear when the center indicate is raised to let them through. You can also try using a band pass filter instead of a low laissez passer.

I besides forgot to mention that the robotic sounding filter pitch shifts are done past using an LFO using a sample and hold on the filter centerpoint, which gives that random variation that occurs at the get-go of the vocal for the held chord. The wah produced by the filter envelope is in add-on to the South&H LFO modulation.

But most importantly, do not surrender trying. It always takes a lot of time and experience to dial in the sound you lot want while you are still just learning synthesis.

Ten-Trade · Posted: Thu April 26, 2012 six:45 pm Mail subject:

I propose you play around with the filter key tracking a scrap.
After that yous may have to revisit the cutoff setting to get it to piece of work across the whole keyboard.

Afaik on the microKorg you can't control filter EG intensity with velocity.
_________________
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xmlguy · Platinum Fellow member Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 3605

Hi xtrade, I retrieve a virtual patch from velocity to filter eye should piece of work, with the virtual patch mod intensity serving the same purpose rather than having the EG intensity equally a destination. At least that would exist what I would endeavour. On the R3, the 2nd filter would also serve as the destination, but alas, the MK has only the 1 filter per timbre.

PoisonJam7 · Joined: 23 Apr 2012 Posts: eight

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'm getting closer!

After tweaking the resonance, I was able to go the wah effect much more pronounced on both the lower and higher keys. However, this made the sound much softer, then I tried to counter the effect by tweaking the cutoff a bit. There is a fine line yous accept to straddle between cutoff and resonance if you want the wah effect to audio right, I accept learned.

I messed around with lots of settings based on the advice posted hither and created something that I think was closer and then my final patch. I likewise fabricated a virtual patch to control the S&H LFO that I can dial in after playing the intro chord, so that part of the sound is at present covered. Earlier I was using a completely carve up sound patch to do this, but at present that I take learned how it is existence created I was able to include it in this 1.

I have uploaded an MP3 case of this new patch:

Example 3

A few new bug though:

The notes aren't sustaining equally long as before, and the more notes I play, the quieter it gets. I idea the keyboard tracking was causing this at get-go, only I tried lots of different settings with it and information technology never seemed to make a difference. You'll too hear that at the same fourth dimension that it'southward getting quieter the more notes I add together, it also starts to misconstrue...paradoxically.

If I tin can solve the event of the notes sustaining longer and the volume bug, I call back I'll accept a pretty close patch on my hands. Based on the above MP3, are there whatever more suggestions yous guys tin offering to fix these bug and further tweak the audio? Also, I have one more question (forgive me if this is a totally newb question) what is the filter centerpoint?

Thanks again for all the help! All this work makes me appreciate the simplicity of but plugging in my guitar or bass and playing right away... Smile

xmlguy · Platinum Fellow member Joined: 26 November 2007 Posts: 3605

The distortion is easy to solve. You just need to plow downward the mix level for the patch. Remember that resonance boosts the center point significantly, and then a bunch of notes with loftier resonance can cause internal clippng in the synth engine. A filter with resonance boosts and cuts at the same time, so information technology takes fourth dimension to observe a ballance between the filter wah and the overall audio level of the patch over time. When the filter is doing lots of filtering, you lot tin can use the Amp EG to boost the overall level coordinated with the Filter EG.

For a wah effect, the filter EG starts with a low center signal, so raises it, so lowers it. So the audio level volition start lower, go higher, then become lower. You lot can beginning information technology somewhat past adjusting the EQ a chip. On other synths similar the R3 that have a gratis envelope, you could directly counter act the filter EG to even out the audio level, but not on the MK. You may need to only adapt the amp EG to increase the sustain past decreasing the decay.

The issue with the level dropping with multiple notes is probably because you lot are running out of polyphony and some of the bass notes are getting cut off. You can only do a max of iv note chords on the Microkorg, or less if you apply laying or unison. That is the biggest limitation of the Microkorg: very depression polyphony.

Yous can significantly fatten upwards the patch by using OSC2 as a sub oscillator tuned an octave or two below OSC1, and and so mixing in but enough to become the bass speaker booming, but not enough to be noticeable as the root notation on OSC1. There is a sure range where we cannot easily place sure notes when they are unison harmonics below or above a ascendant root. Gradually boost the mix level of the OSC subosc wave until you tin can clearly identify the note, and then back it down just a bit beneath that betoken. The root note will audio much fatter, but nearly listeners volition not know why unless they are synthesists who know what to listen for. Whenever you hear a powerful bass patch, usually in that location are several of these subtle tricks involved. Another trick is to clear out a hole in the track in the frequency and time domains so that the bass does not compete with annihilation. It is very like shooting fish in a barrel to muddied a track, simply much harder to make clean it up. Yous practise not need a bunch of elements to have a powerful vocal, as 3 piece bands like Blitz proves. Geddy Lee is a keen case when he used synth bass pedals to complement his bass lines. The bass pedal can human activity as a sub oscillator to bass guitar, or for bass pads to fill up inbetween the bass lines.

PoisonJam7 · Joined: 23 Apr 2012 Posts: 8

Thanks for the tips, xmlguy!

I'll work on my patch this weekend and try implementing what yous have suggested.

PoisonJam7 · Joined: 23 Apr 2012 Posts: 8

Alright! I was able to create a patch I'thousand nearly 100% satisfied with this weekend. There is just one last issue I'm having and I'm unsure as to what is causing it or how to set up it. Information technology's also kind of hard to explain, so I've included a link to both an MP3 case and a picture of the waveform to aid in my description of the effect.

Then, when I play a annotation and keep information technology held for any fourth dimension longer then a few seconds, in that location is a drop in the waveform and what sounds and looks like the sample beingness re-triggered. This is most noticeable on the lower notes, and the college up you play the smaller the driblet; presumably because the waveform is getting shorter the higher up I play. What is causing this and how can I fix it?

Like I said, it is kind of difficult to understand what I'm talking well-nigh with just words, and so please take a look at this picture and mind to this MP3 to help.

Thanks in advance for whatever help you lot can offering.

xmlguy · Platinum Member Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 3605

In that location could be several causes of those breaks between notes, only the about likely cause is signal cancellation due to phasing of ii of the same kind of waveforms. When you mix two sine waves together that are 180 degrees out of phase with each other, yous get well-nigh consummate cancellation.

E'er tune a guitar? Observe that when two strings are playing perfectly in melody with each other that in that location's just i single, pure note. But when yous slowly increase or decrease the tension of one string, yous start hearing a pulse that beats faster, the more out of tune it is. So yous probably are mixing 2 waves from OSC1 and OSC2 that are slightly out of melody with each other. The corporeality of detuning is a set value, which results in low notes being more than closely in tune than high notes, thus depression notes have a slower cancellation pulse than loftier notes. Just, this tin can be done other means, because keytracking allows you to use the position on the keyboard to alter other things that tin can have the same effect, similar adjusting the speed of an LFO.

Information technology would aid if you mail the patch in text form here, like so:

From a tube posted in another thread here, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?5=ifOVWXKvLrQ

EDIT SELECT1
Vocalization:-----SYT---SGL---PLY------------
PITCH:-----0--------0--------0-----two------1
OSC1:-----dig-------------- 54--------------
OSC2:------tri------off-------0-----0---------
MIXER:----127-----0--------0---------------
FILTER:---12.50--100------1-----42------20
FILTER EG:-0----twoscore-------0-----56------off
AMP:---------120--cnt-----off-----45--------
AMP EG:-----0-----38-----90-----56------off
LFO i:-------tri-----off-----off-----seventy---------
LFO two:------Sin----off-----off-----28---------
PATCH1:-------LF.2-----Cut-----8----------
PATCH2:-------LF.i-----Ptc-----5-----------
PATCH3:-------nod-----LF.2---45----------
PATCH4:-------FEG-----AnP---32------------
DELAY:----------50-r-------off----56----115----
EQ:--------------320--------3---1.00----half dozen-------

PoisonJam7 · Joined: 23 Apr 2012 Posts: 8

Yes, I'thousand well acquainted with tuning guitars...I've been doing it in some style for the past 12 years..lol So, yes, that sound phenomenon is familiar to me.

Here is my patch in text form:

EDIT SELECT1
Voice:-----SYT---SGL---PLY------------
PITCH:-----0--------0--------ane-----2------0
OSC1:-----squ-------------- 33-------0-------
OSC2:------squ------rng-------0------(-)7---------
MIXER:----127-----127--------0---------------
FILTER:---12.L--45------77-----eleven------3
FILTER EG:-26----53-------0-----127------off
AMP:-------37--cnt-----off-----0--------
AMP EG:-----0-----57-----127-----10------0n
LFO 1:-------saw-----tim-----off-----0---------
LFO 2:------South-H----tim-----on-----3.32---------
PATCH1:-------F.EG-----Cut-----7----------
PATCH2:-------LF.ii-----Cutting-----0----------- (This is for the robot sounds, then at the advisable time I accommodate the cutoff up from 0)
PATCH3:-------LF.1-----Cut---0----------
PATCH4:-------LF.2-----Cut---0------------
Filibuster:----------str-------off----40----0----
EQ:--------------320--------iv---6.00----3-------

Afterward reading what you posted, and seeing the patch in text class, I surmised that the problem was probably existence caused by the ii square waves being used by Osc. 1 & two. This was indeed the case, and changing the waveform of either oscillator seemed to set up the trouble. Not without altering the sound though.

I estimate the only thing to exercise at present would be to change the waveforms on either oscillator and re-tweak the audio to go it back to where it was with two square waves?

xmlguy · Platinum Member Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 3605

Yes, that patch shows two square waves, with OSC2 detuned a bit and using band modulation. That explains the heavy counterfoil effect. You should research ring modulation if you don't know how it works. In this case, OSC2 volition cancel out OSC1 due to the ring modernistic whenever in phase together. Have a look at the post-obit video:

http://world wide web.youtube.com/watch?v=mATt_HyfhOc&feature=related

Band modern causes some very strange results if you don't know what it's doing.

PoisonJam7 · Joined: 23 April 2012 Posts: 8

Thanks for the link. I recollect I can handle it from here with the patch.

Thanks so much for all of your help, xmlguy! I take learned a lot near synthesis from your tips, and I couldn't take made this patch without your insight. So, thanks over again.

One more thing, though. Sorry, just I have to inquire....Tom Sawyer? The opening Taurus Bass? What'due south going on hither?

How To Get Rush Camera Eye Sound

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